Native American Sainthood

[redman2012]

Man, I promised myself I would never again get involved with the political indian issues anymore but this story about naming a Indian women a saint...well, could not keep quiet about it...so here it goes:

What a bunch of BS, first off, no man can proclaim you as a saint, that in itself is idiotic. Second, being native american I find it offensive that the church which was responsible for the murder, and genocide of the Native peoples would try to now claim a indian women as a saint considering there was no such thing in our culture! There is also no such thing as a Christian Native American, its a complete contradiction...how can one be Native and yet claim to be part of a religion that slaughtered our ancestors?!
Any so called Native that would embrace such a concept are nothing but traders to their own heritage and just as guilty as the ones who perpetrated our genocide.
PERIOD[/b]

[greatenchantres]

`Hello Redman,

This is an interesting story, and I think that also interesting is the way that it is viewed by the natives.

I understand the rage, pain, sorrow and even hate towards the group of people that have done the natives wrong.

And yes, negativity is a vicious circle that goes on for ever.

Becoming everyday even more aware of the specifics of the natives genocide, I can be only deeply disapointed and disgusted at what low form of life, human beings can turn themselves into.

Nevertheless, I feel that there is some point that maybe you could try to see under a different perspective.


First of all I need to state, that I am not Indian, I am not American, and I am not Christian. I am pagan, so I feel closer to indian spiritual practices than christian religious practices.

So, what I feel is a product of a lot of confusion, generally in the world is the religious - political mess up.

Religions are a system of explaining the supernatural aspects of our universe, it is a system of preserving the memory of what has been and what will be, it is a system of rituals to honour the deities, and it is a moral system as well, that tells people how they should be conducting their lives.

Religion is a philosophical system, a theory, a sum of ideas. It is not a regime, and it is not political.

Most religions of the world bear too many similarities. The difference is usually found in the way they choose to worship, ie the rituals they use to honour their god/s.

So , as a religion, Christianity -just like any other religion on this earth-, preaches love, understanding, compassion, empathy, peace and freedom of choice. As a philosophical system, Christianity -like most religions on the world- is a peacefull system that teaches inner growth, not external extermination or war.

As many other religions in the passing of time, Christianity has been used and abused to promote political causes, of mean, vengeful, arogant and greedy politicians.

This of course has happened, only because, on the religion's end, the politicians could find a priest, or an authoritative form, that was equality corrupted, mean, vengeful and greedy.

The fact that priests have been corrupted, and have been advocating people to do things that are opposite to what the religious system supports, is evident.

I do not feel that a philosophical system should be blamed for what a man who is corrupted and greedy has tried to do, using a philosophical system as a means to influence people to support a misanthropic idea.

Hence the genocide did occur, but not by christianity, not by people that believed in the religion of christianity, but simply by people who were greedy and hateful, and who at the same time liked to call themselves Christians, as it was the trend of the era.

No system of ideas should be ever blamed for the wrongdoing of a man. Every man has his/her own free will.

Christianity is a religion that has been around for long enough, in order to carry tones of corrupted people in its chambers.

As of the native americans that choose to be christians... I am not sure if it is that much of a choice ... I mean looking back at the boarding schools and all that several Indian generations had to suffer... I do not feel it was a matter of choice, it was more likely a matter of survival for the kids that were caught up in that horrifying situation.

So I would be careful to not be judgemental against those who converted, who lost their language, who forgot their customs. It is what they needed to do, in order to survive.

I see no treason in that, on the contrary I see immense amounts of bravery and strength, if one was to go through that terrible ordeal...

Pictures of indians of that era, being dressed up in western clothes, create a great feeling of horror to me, as I know what they actually mean. Violance, being disrooted, being ripped off from your family and from all the world you actually knew.

I do not understand, how you cannot feel for these people...

Brightest Blessings....

[malakotawelo]

`the problem with the mosaic traditions, which encompass Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, lies in the confusions within their own philosophies...

there are some good principles, but upon further discovery and study, one will find that they all have the taint of politics or manipulation within them...

example: in Judaic history, the Jews were supposedly told by their god or even blessed when they killed the inhabitants of a land they were taking by force... this completely contradicts another philosophy they are supposed to embrace, which is love and peace...which cannot co-exist with genocide...however, this type of perceived blessing for the act of genocide is typically adopted as normal to the Christian mind, that attempts to justify any acts of violence as long as they are condoned by their god...if death and destruction are from god, then they are good, and anyone claiming to be acting these bad behaviors out with the blessing of their god, is also perceived as good...if viewed from the confused philosophy of their doctrine...if death and destruction is coming from someone against the accepted religion, then it is bad...and anyone who practices another religion, but either defends themselves, or attacks those of the accepted faith, are evil or wrong...twisted as it may seem this is part of the confusion in the Christian philosophy, but it is also in the Judaic and Muslim ideologies as well...

what does this point to? powers other than the "gods" manipulating men...it is entirely political...it has no real basis in any kind of spiritual philosophy, because it contradicts the other philosophies these groups claim to embrace...unless of course you take into consideration that they only extend good will to those that share their beliefs, or are prospects for conversion...but this is a cheap double standard and ignores the importance of life in all its forms, and the need to revere everyone and everything equally in order to survive...we are individuals, but part of a greater whole, and these confused philosophies address this poorly...

and this anomaly can be found in almost every religion, or religious philosophy...especially those that were at some point or are currently embraced by the rulers of a society as the "official" religion...or those that have become accepted as main stream religions...

and it is uncanny to me how these "main stream" religions have gone out fo their way to eradicate the philosophies of older traditions that make it a point to address the importance of the whole organism of the universe...in exchange for an ideology that is so corrupted it tricks us into worshiping the hierarchy of government...

for me, the "mythology" of certain philosophies, other than being great stories, is a way to convey certain ideas, or to get people to think about moral decisions...sometimes this has translated into hero figures being repeated in these stories to the point they eventually become the "gods"...but the ideas being conveyed are simpler than that if we look close enough...

we honor mother earth and father sky because they are forces which took part in our being, as well as things that help sustain us...they are gifts to us, as we are to them...but they are not really deities, but to convey the idea of reverence for our environment and the intricate role we play in sustaining it to sustain our own lives, they have been deified...

the ideologies of the mosaic religions, is backwards, because it deifies the ruler-ship, or rather deifies the structure of government, which they want us to believe is more important than the forces of the universe that have all collaborated to make all life in the universe...

they want us to have a short sighted view of the world, where they provide everything for us, and often the most trivial things we do not need, but things they build unnatural dependencies for, and train us to believe we need, as a poor substitute for the actual things that really sustain all life on our planet...

to the mosaic mind, hierarchies are revered over the idea of interdependency... but in reality it is the interdependency of all life that is truth and really sustains us...it is about relationships, the kind that recognize the importance of all things instead of spreading the lie that only the top tier are the most important and should have all the power over life and death...and those further down the totem pole are to be used and abused by those in power...

so this is the reason why otherwise good people were tricked into treating others badly, because their rulers wanted to justify bad behavior and genocide, and they were misled to believe that this genocide was condoned and sanctioned by their god...when the truth is the rulers made god in their own image in order to deceive the masses...

the word religion means "bondage" but it was never intended to be a good term, but a term of control...however to the mind of those embracing the mosaic religions, such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam... slavery and bondage to their god is a good thing, so they see nothing wrong with the word...

very obviously this all points to brainwashing... the kind that has been propagated for centuries to the point that people no longer recognize these ideas for what they are, they are lies...

now the basic ideas, peace, love, harmony, and kindness, are great, but if they are tainted by the ideology that has brainwashed people into worshiping hierarchy instead of respecting everyone and all life, then it contradicts these basic ideas...

so when i see people adhering to these twisted ideologies, and being completely oblivious to their true purpose, i do feel pity for them...because they embrace the imposter of the truth...and swear up and down that it actually is the truth, and not a fake...

[tosawii]

`Okay, as I see it, the main problem here is that you opened a can of worms up, with Native People crawling out of their Worm Cans, and some not.
As a Leader of My People, have to respect what decisions they make for themselves, as what is in their Heart & Minds for themselves and not for Others to Judge, especially from Another Race.
Most of Our People today have gone the way of the European Religions, since the coming of them to this Land, so to condemn any natives is not proper at all, especially when they are not your Tribal Nation and you have no voice in what they choose for themselves.
Working in the past with many Native Organizations, Regional, National and International, their focus was also they condemned and lost many Supporters, not just Caucasian, but also Native Peoples. Working with Native and Non-Native people, most were so out spoken, they did not realize their own words, nor take time to reflect upon their loud words. Many of those Organizations are gone now, but the work remains, which is what my focus was and not to push people away, but to build allegiances.
That also had taken place back in the 1800s, when the Lakota got pushed out onto the Plains from their Neighbors, when the Ojibwa got the guns first. The Lakota then started to kill and harass the other smaller Tribal Nations that accepted the White ways of farming and Religion. Many of the smaller Tribal People then decided to make the move to Indian Country, since they no longer had the numbers to fight back.
So, getting back to the point concerning religions, most people, Caucasian and Native now follow the "Lakota Way" which in itself has adopted many of Our Plains Ways. It also borrows from most of the Tribal Nations that were here, before them.
That is All

[whollyheretic (deleted)]

`
I am glad to see that some do understand how toxic
the religions from the primitive savage Middle East have proven themselves.

Sad that it’s only men who have the intellectual calibre
to separate the nonsense-propaganda from the historical reality.

Christianity has rendered extinct the Human Beings, my dead culture,
the best civilisation on Earth,
and there is no forgiveness in my heart for the worst crime
in the history of mankind.

Christians are the perpetrators of the toxic meme
“Ours Is The One Right Way For People To Live,
And Everyone Should Live Like Us”
[see Daniel Quinn – Beyond Civilisation]

It is this alien nonsense that, even today, has the natives talking whiter-than-white
in the vain hope they will be accepted by white society.
[And with all due disrespect to Tosowii, for telling us that the true Old Way is for worms].


White society cannot accept itself, let alone the diversity that freedom cultivates.
That’s why they have so many laws,
a creeping carpet of prohibition and punishment,
choking the life out of genuine morality.

Christians are mentally crippled by the demands and contradictions
of their filthy religion of of cowardice and fake absolution
imposed by a jealous narcissistic predator.